How To Decide On The Right Funnel And Marketing Automation Software

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Emails are always more dangerous than landing page because landing page, if you screwed up, one user, five users, they will see it.

Jake: (00:00) Actually it takes, the way I think about it. It’s like you go to gas station, they had, they serve food. You don’t want to buy food from gas station, but they serve it because in case you want it so actually…

Introduction: (00:15) Welcome to the digital marketing secrets show was Carlos A. Vazquez where we share actionable strategies and tactics to grow businesses no matter what industry you’re in. Now your host, Carlos A. Vazquez.

Carlos: (00:30) What’s up my brother.

Jake: (00:32) Hey

Carlos: (00:33) Dude, we’ve been working together since 2015 when is it 2015 or 2016?

Jake: (00:41) I believe. Yeah. It’s between 2015 and 2016 yeah, it’s been more than three years. Of course.

Carlos: (00:47) Yeah. I, every time we talk about it, I say over and over again, one year on the Internet is like seven years in real, real life.

Jake: (00:56) Yeah. Officially in this field of digital marketing because stuff, they are going really fast. You feel like after three months it’s, no, this is, I didn’t do that. This is stupid.

Carlos: (01:07) Man. I and, and I stumbled upon you. I think I’ve, I found you right when you’re, when you were starting in this whole, like digital marketing, like marketing automation side of things, right?

Jake: (01:19) Yeah, exactly. It was like my first three months, it’s on Upwork.

Carlos: (01:23) Yeah.

Jake: (01:24) And I wanted to be inside this gray area between digital marketing and programming. So yeah, it was, it was like my first experience in this field.

Carlos: (01:34)
The end. So you learn Clickfunnels working with me, right?

Jake: (01:38) Yeah, exactly.

Carlos: (01:39) And now you’re, you’re just a beast. You’re a monster. You, you know, Java script and with all your programming background. And then you saw click funnels and it’s like, it’s, it’s just like a landing page builder. It’s a landing page builder, but it just does things in its own way. But it’s very friendly when it comes to javascript. So you were able to hit the ground running and, um, you picked up on it really quickly. So, which is why you’re, you’re, you’re still on board because I mean, Clickfunnels is the software we prefer to use. And, and one of the reasons why I’ve always loved working with you is that, you, you’re, you’re, you have learned to work with my ADD.

Carlos: (02:23) So you’ve gotten used to me throwing things at you and you go with it.

Jake: (02:31) And Yeah, I love it. I liked the way we work because, because I like to try new stuff and if you want to try new stuff, you have to be quick. Like you cannot just spend a month give me a month until I learned a new software and I’ll be back to you. No, you have two hours, go and figure it out.

Carlos: (02:48) Right, man.

Jake: (02:49) Then if you cannot do it, you are not good enough for the, for these fields.

Carlos: (02:53) No, no, absolutely. Because it’s like, it’s like back then WordPress was like the thing, and I’m talking about like early 2000s, um, no, no, actually I’m lying. I think back then, early 2000 it was like, it was a thing called uh, it was mumble, mumble and then PHP nuke and then WordPress took over and then more WordPress became like the number one content management system.

Carlos: (03:16) And now, even to this day, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s still pretty good, but it’s very buggy. If you install a plugin, it could break the entire site. So it was just too, too much. And why do not now digital marketing, it’s gotten to the point where not funnel pages are easy to build. Um, they got marketing automation. So you, I know that I’ve thrown so many different things at you that you, you found your, your little software that you’re comfortable with.

Carlos: (03:43) So what I wanted to do with this specific episode was for one, I want everyone to learn more about you because you’re, you’re like, you’re my right hand man. When it comes to implementation, like everything, everything I know, I know, you know, and more because you actually know the programming stuff. Um, and then when I throw things at you, you welcome it. So it’s like you absorb it and then you’ll tell me, hey Carlos, this is not, this is not that good.

Carlos: (04:07) It’s not working. So I wanted people to kind of just get it, get a feel for someone that understands marketing and implementation at the same time. So that way whenever they’re making their decisions, this isn’t going to be a Clickfunnel show where we’re here to sell Clickfunnels. We’re going to tell you what we love, we don’t love and what we recommend for anyone starting out. So, um, are you ready bro? You, you’re good to go.

Jake: (04:29) Yeah. I’m good to go.

Carlos: (04:31) So first thing is first when I introduce you to my, my potential customers, I brag about how you learned all the bad words from watching Narcos on that.

Jake: (04:41) Yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s the first thing. Whenever you want to learn a new language, it’s to learn how to curse I think that’s the rule. And because Spanish, like it’s my fourth language. So yeah, I’m used, I’m used to fix the environment and Narcos was like the best teacher for this.

Carlos: (04:59) Hold on, hold on a second. Four languages. Okay. So, wait, let me write this down. So what are the languages that you know?

Jake: (05:06) I, my, my native language is Arabic. I speak Turkish and English.

Carlos: (05:13) Okay.

Jake: (05:14) And Spanish, I learned a little bit and once in once in a time I was like, I learned Japanese. I learned Japanese, like mid level, I was speaking Japanese for real because I wanted to go to Japan, but then plan changed and now I forgot everything about it.

Carlos: (05:33) Okay. So I just crossed Japanese. Okay, so you speak Arabic, Turkish, English and Spanish. And right now you live in Turkey, right?

Jake: (05:42) Yes.

Carlos: (05:43) Got It. And, and, and I know that whenever, whenever I work with someone, people are always a little hesitant working with people overseas because there’s so much of a cultural difference. There’s so much of a language barrier and I mean you speak four languages.

Carlos: (06:00) So I guess, I guess that helps. That helps up man. So you live in Turkey and you’re Syrian, right? You’re from Syria.

Jake: (06:06) Yes, I’m from Syria, I’m from Duma, Syria.

Carlos: (06:08) Okay. Well you know what I call you Jake, but your, your real name is it’s Jamil, right? Akkkead?

Jake: (06:14) Jamil.

Carlos: (06:14) Jamil. Well that’s not Latino. I mean Jamil

Jake: (06:17) Yes Jamil.

Carlos: (06:18) The letter J is like, it sounds like h for us. And so it’s funny because whenever you send them a text and you say, ha ha ha in English you write h a h a h a letter, in Spanish, they write j.a.j.a.j.a

Jake: (06:36) Yeah I asked English friends and they are all ja ja ja ja

Carlos: (06:44) My English buddies we laugh at our, our Spanish family members because we go, what the heck is ja ja ja ja.

Carlos: (06:52) Alright, so, so in short, instead of calling you, Jamil Akhad, we just call you. You said you want us to call, you want us to call you Jake? That’s why we call you Jake man. So I brought you on as you’re, you’re basically the implementation director because anything you say when it comes to automations, I really depend on you because you know, you’ve already proven to me, you know what you’re doing and then you’ve already proven to me that you, if I throw something at you, you will give it a 100% effort to make it work. And if it doesn’t you, hey calls it, it just doesn’t work.

Carlos: (07:26) This is a portion that can, but if we’re trying to make money with this or we’re trying to make sure that someone else is going to generate sales from it, this is just going to break the entire process. So implementation director, you’re the guy we go to and with that being said? You’ve, you’ve already, you what? What? What are the different landing page software you’ve already used in the past?

Jake: (07:52) I have used all Thai Chili, like of course whenever you mentioned any, any kind of websites is you start with WordPress and all that admin page creators, they have infinite number of landing page creators in in WordPress. Then you move on to more specific because people, yeah, five years ago, 10 years ago, they people, they use WordPress but now it comes very big to the ways that people, they cannot understand how WordPress works and it’s a lot for for them if they are just for digital marketing purposes, you need something more specific.

Jake: (08:28) So when you come to something more specific, you’ll have Clickfunnels, you will have built it all. You have love the unbounce lead pages, unbounce, there are a lot but people because of the word I believe because of the word “Click” and the word “Funnels”, this was like 20% of why we found becomes popular.

Jake: (08:55) Clickfunnels always remember people with with clickbank which is really popular and the word funnel which is used for the whole process, our depth strategy. It’s also something really important and one more thing is the community. The amount of people they are using Clickfunnels right now is huge. Like compared to the other software, other software, they may have more features, some of them the we have better features, they may be cheaper but because when you are going to buy something and you are going to invest in something like this, you don’t want to change each three months or six months since you, whenever you are, you are doing something to do so much. I think you’ll have to have your strategy for one year, maybe for two years.

Jake: (09:38) So when you are, you are, you want to invest in something, you want to know that this will work now and for one year and, and whenever I need something, I can find the committees as they can help me. I can find the support. I can find the DEX beers, people’s are bros whenever I need a bro. But in other software, you may not have this, you may lack one thing or another. So that’s why Clickfunnels I believe now it’s the best when it comes to building digital marketing funnels.

Carlos: (10:11) Gotcha. Yeah, I mean, I get it because look, Clickfunnels doesn’t always have the best support. They really don’t have the, in fact, I haven’t really met any company. Like you got InfusionSoft, you’ve got ActiveCampaign shoot. You even got Google. Like these companies, usually the support, you, they never, they’re never always the best. It’s always the community that really gives you the answers you’re looking for and you, you’re a geek. You’re, you’re like, you’re literally a programmer.

Carlos: (10:40) So when you have an issue, it’s a pretty serious issue because you, you, you already know the basics of how to fix something. Hang on a second. You already know the basics of fixing something, but when you, when you hit a wall you need to support it. It’s like whenever I call support, let me tell you something. If I’m consequences because I already tried everything, right?

Jake: (11:00) Yes.

Carlos: (11:00) But I’m not on your level so I go to you for support and then when you can’t get support, that’s, that’s a problem so that I get it. The community, it’s just not just a software you’re getting, you’re trying to buy into a community as well. Now I, I mean Clickfunnels has its problems. I personally don’t like the load time of Clickfunnels. Clickfunnels take so long to load. It has so much code on it. It’s so annoying.

Carlos: (11:29) But the community is solid. The, the building, building a funnel page. You can literally drag some stuff around but then you can actually throw code in there too. So it’s like, in my opinion, I feel like it’s an easier canvas to get creative for a non technical person and especially a technical person. So that that’s, that’s what I love about it.

Carlos: (11:52) So, oh, alright. So WordPress, that community is too big because you have all kinds of other people, right? And they don’t know about funnels. They don’t know about marketing, they just don’t about creating a website and making it look really, really beautiful. Right. So what don’t you like about WordPress for funnels?

Jake: (12:12) WordPress is actually whatever you, you speak about WordPress right now. It’s like you’re asking people that. Do you do programming? Like, yeah, I do bro. I mean best bro, but programming right now it’s like 10 fields. Like you do programming for this, you do programming for, for mobile. So WordPress is the same whenever, if you want to develop something in WordPress, that means you have to find the one that works with WooCommerce, with, with a decent marketing.

Jake: (12:39) So in order to find those specific people, it will be like hard for you and the maintenance, it will be hard for you because whenever you want to change something, don’t do it. Wait, let the programmer do it for you. There is a new plugin, you want to update the plugin, this plugin is not compatible with other another plucking this all headache whenever it comes to funds, you don’t need to worry about it.

Jake: (13:06) So that’s why if you, if you want something that can last a long time without having a team to support you, Clickfunnels is the way to go. WordPress, you can’t have something more powerful. Of course the Clickfunnels you have like infinite number of features that you can add but you need to have in house team or like a contract with development companies that they can support you really quick.

Jake: (13:32) As you said, sometimes you need support and you know what for a fact, because we have it all the time, like one page is down when it comes to crew files. You can, you can fix it in five minutes, 10 minutes. And if you cannot fix it, uh, it will be like you, you will go to support and at the last, the last resort would be as a support, but when it comes to WordPress, there is no support and sometimes it will take a day to fix or so.

Carlos: (14:03) Right. Yeah. You can find a bunch of people on Upwork or on Fiverr that can do something on WordPress, but just the process to find someone that you can trust is already long. And then let’s say you do find someone that you can trust over and over again that it’s, it’s never usually an isolated problem. It’s usually a problem that you have to uncover. Look through the back end yet to go to the, the, the code you have to go to yeah to disable each plugin one at a time to see, it’s just a long and crazy process.

Jake: (14:35) Yeah. And it’s always number one in the, like whenever you want do a maintenance for WordPress problem, disable all plugins. And if it’s like online site, you cannot disable all plugins. It’s like ecommerce and you are money from this, it’s going to be a disaster. So you will, we all lead to, to do that. Otherwise you have to have another site, which is a staging site. So it’s going to be a long like a long process for you.

Carlos: (15:02) Right. Right. And then you know, so all right, when it comes to WordPress, if you’re building a website, most of the time you just go like on theme4us, you buy a beautiful theme, you install it on WordPress and now the real work begins. Because now you’ve got to, you bought the theme to look one way, but now you have your content that either you don’t have enough content or you don’t have the right images and the, now it’s like a whole different job to make it look like the actual theme, what you bought in the first place. So that’s a ton of work.

Carlos: (15:31) So already when it comes to marketing, like if we’re trying to generate email addresses and, and generate cashflow that WordPress process is not going to make it any easier. In fact. Alright, so the way I see WordPress, I like WordPress for just your regular site and maybe a blog engine and that’s about it.

Carlos: (15:49) And you know what? I do use WooCommerce on, on our site, but not like funnels. It’s more like it’s a catalog of products and there’s no sales really involved. I’m just sending a link to an existing customer. So always subscription is going, but I don’t really expect any cold sales to happen this way. I, that’s why I use Clickfunnels for it, but for primarily WordPress so I can look professional and it’s just a blog to attract a bunch of suspects into it. So that’s how I see it. I mean, do you, do you, what do you think about that? Do you think that we’re using it the right way?

Jake: (16:24) Yeah, exactly. Like you cannot, WordPress as you said, it’s just for creating your website for your blog. You cannot compare WooCommerce and Shopify and Magento to Clickfunnels because they have different purposes. If you are just doing a funnel with one to five products, you don’t need to set up a shop. You don’t open a shop, just four or five products and you don’t do this long process for this.

Jake: (16:53) Yeah. Woocommerce when when you have like 10, 10 products. We always advise our clients if you have more than 10 products and you don’t hold and you want to sell them all at the same time it’s like you are going to have a funnel. Then you will have to have your own ecommerce website which is, is it usually with Shopify you choose WooCommerce you you just Magento because the amount of money on the amount of products that you have will be, uh, will be enough for you to spend that long time and that’s much money because it’s, it’s it’s, it’s more time than you know it’s more money.

Jake: (17:30) Everything can be doable is the programming but is it efficient? This is always the question, is it efficient timewise, moneywise, investment wise, like future wise, is it, is it sufficient or is it, is it appropriate for you now to do it? If yes, then you, you can go for example, you can go bigger

Jake: (17:50) But if it’s not, you’ll stick with it with the smaller options or you stick with a smarter options when it comes to quick cons.

Carlos: (17:56) Gotcha. And you know what I so what, what, what? I think that if I personally like as far as shopping, shopping sites like eco, ecommerce websites, I really do like Shopify because they got a great support system, they got a great community and you can, you can find some really beautiful themes and designs for it. But I like it more for like product, like like physical product, ecommerce not, yes. Not for like digital products because I think that for digital you’re wasting money on something. You could just use something like WooCommerce instead.

Carlos: (18:29) WooCommerce, in my opinion, is more for the digital services. But if you’re using that primarily for your sales, I think you’re losing opportunity for sales because funnels allow you to put a bump offer, an upsell down sell, and then you can create subscription

Carlos: (18:45) WooCommerce, they, they’ve tried, but it’s not, it’s not as good. They can, people don’t, people don’t realize they need something until after the fact. It’s better that you present the offer. Like let me give you an example. So, um, usually people buy a funnel for us. We, they buy a prospect generation funnel, and that’s basically a funnel that captures an email address and shows what a thank you page, right?

Carlos: (19:11) But if you know they’re going to need an appointment funnel, meaning now you’re going to want to send them to a calendar booking. They’re not gonna know that until you tell them, hey, are you going to booking a page? You’re gonna need a booking page plus a prospect funnel. If you want to set up an appointment. And if you, if that was WooCommerce, they’re not going to go there and add to cart everything they need. It’s just too confusing.

Carlos: (19:30) But a funnel. On the other hand, you buy the upsell. I mean you buy the, the prospect funnel, they, the transaction goes through and then the upsell says, hey, if you want to set up an appointment funnel as well, meaning you want to turn these people into appointments, click on yes and we’ll add this as well through the same experience.

Carlos: (19:46) So that person is likely to buy that versus having to add it either through Shopify or through through a WooCommerce. So I think that you’re missing out on money if you just use WooCommerce or Shopify if that’s the kind of stuff you’re trying to do.

Carlos: (20:03) So alright, so that crosses that off. So you agree with me that WordPress is not the best way when it comes to ecommerce, it’s good.

Jake: (20:11) Yeah, it got full force, full force for small, for small number of products. Yeah. It’s not the best way. And one example for this, I always like to think about it like this. Imagine when you are going to create a small image or small covered colored backgrounds within whatever it is, you’ll have the option to use something like Photoshop or Canva. A lot of times it’s better to use Canva because it’s easy. It’s ready, it’s we can, we call it environment. You have the tools that you need without any extra tools and you kind of do it really quick. It’s good for you.

Jake: (20:48) You can go crazy when you open for Photoshop and you can do infinite number of things, but not all the time you need Photoshop and not all the time is you need WooCommerce. Not all the time is you need this big ecommerce because it’s available because it’s free. Yeah, but it’s not just about what, what you pay for it, it’s about what, how much time, how much money you are going to put inside of it for, for the development.

Carlos: (21:13) Right. It’s like getting the job done on how to do the unnecessary work. So yeah, I agree. Like, I know enough to use Photoshop for a bunch of stuff, but I just go to Canva because I’m like, why? Why do I need to do all of that? It’s all built in Canva. Their themes are, are already ready to go and most of it’s free. So it’s like, what’s the big deal? So, okay, so WordPress, we’re good to go. I mean, I’ve used like some landing page builder. I use something called Profit Builder. Um, uh, Thrive Themes, I’ve used Optimize, what have you used for landing pages for WordPress? I want you to name as many as you can. I want to go ahead and try to put in there.

Jake: (21:54) You have Elements, you have Divi themes, you, and of course now it’s the trend to use WP Bakery or whatever they call it, the King Composer. Those are composers. Actually there are much more like plugins and seems whenever you are creating a new theme, you will buy the license and you will put it inside your theme. So use it whenever he buys a new scene from your own, your version, they can use it to create their own versions. Yeah. Those key composer, WP Bakery, there are infinite number of those.

Jake: (22:25) Like as you said, Thrive Themes. A lot of them and they all do almost exactly the same thing. They are really great. They are, but to, to some limits to some limits, it’s like you can some one, some often they will lack, like you cannot change the header and the footer sometimes. Some of them you can share them, but there are like you cannot, you cannot move that, that element is really quick. You will feel, oh I don’t want this. I want to do what to do this. Let me hire someone to do it for me. So all they have some problems with, with them. There is no one perfect builder for a WordPress.

Carlos: (23:08) Gotcha, Gotcha. Yeah, so I gave up, I out of all the, out of all of the page builders, um, we use WP bakery for our, yeah, like the design of the pages. But that’s as far as it goes. We’re not there to build funnels with that. It’s just to move things around. And that’s it. Like the theme itself is the design, bakery just lets us both the stuff and we’re done with it. Like we’re, we’re moving on and, and, and that’s it. And then when it comes to funnels, we completely go to a whole different different platform, which is Clickfunnels. Alright, so now let’s talk about different platforms.

Carlos: (23:41) Okay. So, um, for landing page builders, obviously we use like a Clickfunnels. Okay. But I want to know what your other, who your other top 2 are after Clickfunnels or you know what, even if maybe, maybe you know, you’ve been working with me for a while, so you’re only working with Clickfunnels primarily because that’s what I bring in. But if clickfunnels is not your number one choice, what is your number one choice?

Jake: (24:07) Right, no, I can say LeadPages. They are a good competitor to Clickfunnels. They have good features, but they, they like the community. As I said, they like the community. Like they have Clickfunnels and Unbounce maybe they will come next. Maybe there are better. As you said, we don’t use in the last times. We don’t usually use that much. Uh, sinks. I don’t identity falls, we have just used it once here and was there. But I can say LeadPages, Unbounce, they are the best automated after Clickfunnels. They are not really close to Clickfunnels though.

Jake: (24:50) The integration part in Clickfunnels is really powerful. Like you can, you can integrate almost anything in just less than five minutes. This is the biggest thing when it comes to Clickfunnels.

Carlos: (25:02) Yeah. What I don’t like about what I don’t like about, uh, I agree with you. Clickfunnels is my favorite one. I think Unbounce loads the fastest. LeadPages lets you build a lot, lot more pages.

Carlos: (25:15) They’re pretty, when I say Unbounce being fast enough in load time, like it’s not as clunky. Um, and then, but there’s a clunky process and the last time I tried Unbounce, it was a clunky process to connect ActiveCampaign to it. And it was like, it was, remember it was just too bad. It was not even an easy integration. So I was like, oh, this is just the worst.

Carlos: (25:35) Um, LeadPages. I had to actually create, in Clickfunnels, there’s one funnel and then you can create a page. It’s all within that one funnel. LeadPages, I basically had to create a whole, it was like this whole long row of pages and there was one of them, two of them pertain to one funnel. Those are like confusing and then organize everything. It’s still like that now. I don’t know,

Jake: (26:01) It’s been some time for me to use it, but yeah, it has some weird infrastructure. For example, whenever you want to, for example, you have, you have a form and you want to connect it to ActiveCampaign, you know in Clickfunnels the connection is just in the menu. Whenever, where whatever you put some form at the end of the day, you can connect it from the menu. We can connect it from here, but in the LeadPages if it’s like it’s the same right now, I haven’t used it for a long time like no.

Jake: (26:32) So whenever you want to connect it, you will have to go to the button. You were going to have to open it. Then you go to to some kinds of settings and other settings you’ll see integrations. So it’s confusing if you have multiple buttons you have to do with more than one time. So yeah, sometimes they have few things. Sometimes they want to be different from Clickfunnels. So they overdo it and overdoing it in digital marketing is one of the biggest problems.

Carlos: (27:01) Yeah. Yeah. They want to be so different and it’s annoying. And then you know what I don’t like about LeadPages, Unbounce is that they don’t, I don’t know if it’s still the same now, but there’s no way to set up a sales funnel in there. Like what stripe, like you, there’s no sales sales funnel portion, so you only can collect the email address, set up an appointment system, but the only payment option you have is by putting a paypal button in there.

Carlos: (27:26) And that was it. Like, Unbounce a lot of people end up using something like Samcart, which is a whole separate system. Yeah. I love the fact that Clickfunnels, you could create stuff that generates email addresses, registers people on webinar, books appointments, get to the sales, gets upsales, gets bump offers, and you can deliver information products all still within Clickfunnels and at the $97 package, which is, it’s kind of expensive compared to everyone else.

Carlos: (27:54) But if you’re really using Clickfunnels, the way that it’s meant to, 97 bucks is nothing. Plus it has an affiliate program that you end up just getting it for free essentially. So that’s the reason why I really don’t like using LeadPages, Unbounce because the integration is clunky. It’s too hard to do. And then at that you came and make money off of it to make up for monthly pay price you’re spending. So yeah.

Carlos: (28:20) But I keep hearing about Builder All like I see Builder All everywhere. So either they have one heck of a affiliate program and everyone’s pushing hard. Have you? I’ve never used Builder All that. Have you ever used it?

Jake: (28:35) I didn’t use it for ours or your project to be honest. So I cannot give a good review about it.

Carlos: (28:41) Gotcha.

Jake: (28:42) But I have just played with it like you know, whenever there is a new software, we like to just test this. But you cannot judge it. You cannot judge it until you do a full project because you all figure out what is wrong and what is missing.

Carlos: (28:56) Right? No, you’re, you’re, you’re right. So it’s like we’re wanting to try things out. Like we’ve tried, okay. So we tried 10 minute funnels, which was another one. Um, we tried, um, Igloo, right? That was um, we tried, um, uh, what’s that? What’s that one? That last one? Landingi, we tried that one.

Jake: (29:16) Oh yeah, Landingi. It has a big issue, which is that you cannot align stuff easily. So you have, you have to just check if it’s aligned or not. Like not like Clickfunnels because it’s good. They meant to do a good thing that you can move with the elements whenever, whatever you want. But there is no aligning technique like Photoshop, you’ll have guide guidelines,

Carlos: (29:41) Right.

Jake: (29:41) You can’t be, it can’t be a mess as..

Carlos: (29:44) They have a snapping features. So that way you could try to align it. But then it’s never, it’s, it’s, it could be off by a pixel or a few pixels. It drives you insane. And then the mobile version is like all different, like disaster. I’m like, Oh, you know what, let’s just go back to Clickfunnels. Sometimes they, they want to give you too much control and you can’t even,

Jake: (30:06) Yeah, overdoing it one more time.

Carlos: (30:10) Alright. Okay. So landing page software, Clickfunnels for the win. WordPress is for more for blogs. Um, and then now let’s talk about last thing, that’s the marketing automation side of things, alright. And we’ve used, we’ve used a few, we’ve used a few and, and we primarily, the, the order that I see, the, I personally love for the business is ActiveCampaign as number one.

Carlos: (30:38) Not only because it’s powerful, but because the price is not high compared to everyone else. Like literally their lowest package is $15 a month and you get all of this power in and I’m talking about the latest price increase. I’m doing $15 a month because you have to, if you don’t, if you don’t do the annual plan, it’s 15 bucks a month, which is still nothing. It’s, it’s whatever.

Carlos: (30:59) Um, and then the next one will be InfusionSoft for now it’s a, what’s it called? It’s called keap K, E, A, P and they’re, they’re, I don’t know if you noticed this, but if you look at the ActiveCampaign colors and look at the KEAP colors and the logo, it’s like InfusionSoft was kind of copying ActiveCampaign. I don’t know if you ever noticed that one take a look.

Jake: (31:24) Yes, yes. They really have done something. They wanted to do some kinds of free branding but in a weird way. Whenever you enter the site, it’s still uh, it’s still if you just off, so they are just in transition phase if we can call it like this

Carlos: (31:46) And, and they’re trying to, because back then it was really complicated. I don’t know if you ever had a chance to put with the old InfusionSoft, like did you ever try, and I’m talking about like right before you started working with me, like they, you ever tried those, that, that old old version, have you seen it in action?

Jake: (32:06) Yes, I have done it once. And until now, InfusionSoft is confusing because InfusionSoft the way they think, they say that they are a full CRM not like ActiveCampaign. So if they are distant themselves or the system from other software, so whenever you want to integrate to other software, it will, you’ll have endless number of errors and problems. That’s like ActiveCampaign, ActiveCampaign they just, we are just an automation service and we have infinite number of integrations. Whatever you are using, you can use us.

Carlos: (32:43) Gotcha. Now, what Infusionsoft has that ActiveCampaign does it is that you can put the payment gateway inside of it, which is cool, not the worst thing in the world. Um, and I wish ActiveCampaign and if I for ActiveCampaign does it, oh my God, I’m gonna, I’m gonna be, I’m gonna be in heaven. But um, I remember the builder, like when I first started trying to figure out infusion soft, just trying to move the canvas. Did you just, just, just a move it, I was like, how do you move this to God? I can’t, I can’t drag, oh you had to press the control key on the keyboard and then move your mouse. I was like, really? Like this is stupid, but I got used to it, whatever. And then I like the connection. I’d like do like the connection.

Carlos: (33:24) That’s where like you can actually plan it out the automation first and then make all the connections and whatever. But then you got to go into the details of it and now it’s like, okay, no, it’s a little bit, it’s not as easy. And I, you can’t link directly to these things either. Not like ActiveCampaign.

Carlos: (33:42) ActiveCampaign gives you a link for the entire automation and each element except the, the delay timers or whatever. But like the emails, um, it’s really the emails, they’re linkable. Like you can actually link to the email inside of like a blueprint so that way people could see the blueprint. So, um, what other software have we tried that we just said, I don’t want to deal with this anymore.

Jake: (34:09) We have tried a bunch. We have, we have tried of course the famous MailChimp.

Carlos: (34:15) Oh my God. Mailchimp. Mailchimp.

Jake: (34:19) We have tried to get response. We have tried Aweber. Aweber, the favorite for Shopify people because it’s really

Carlos: (34:27) Because when you don’t know what you don’t know. Yeah. Ontraport. I know I’ve played with Ontraport. I didn’t want to, I don’t want to go through that, that route. The only thing I know the Ontraport does that was really good was um, uh, a lot of subscription, I’m sorry, a lot of supplement related industries, like, like the powders for like shakes or whatever. Um, there’s certain, there are certain, um, merchant services that will work with that and ontraport habits to work with like a bunch of those. And that was good. But other than that, I was like, why? I think it’s expensive. You get to get to do all this stuff and it was just too much. I was another one. Um, drip.

Carlos: (35:11) You know what I fell with drip for a little bit. That’s like an ActiveCampaign wanna-be. Have you tried out drip?

Jake: (35:16) I’ve tried it once but yeah, but just for testing. Uh, yeah.

Carlos: (35:20) I was like a whole new, another language. ugh, what was another one? There’s another one I wanted to say. Um, Actionetics. I love Clickfunnels, but

Jake: (35:32) Yeah, actually it takes, it’s not my favorite at all you know that.

Carlos: (35:37) Actionetics man. Um, actually that makes, in my opinion, it’s like a, like a, like a MailChimp on steroids almost because

Jake: (35:43) I actually, it takes, the way I think about it, it’s like you go to gas station and they had, and they serve food. You don’t want to buy food from gas station, but they serve it because in case you want it, so actually I actually like this

Carlos: (36:01) That’s hilarious because hey, it gives you on it. We got hot dogs. You want, that’s hilarious. I don’t know if you ever see a Chris Rock, Chris Rock stand up. He talks about as strip club, they have strip clubs over there and then they serve wings and speak in a strip. Because like you know what, I’m not going to come here. They can do their wings at a strip club. It’s just why.

Jake: (36:28) Yeah. So it’s exactly like this. So your emails is cyclic fans. Yeah, you can use Actionetics but no, don’t do it.

Carlos: (36:37) Alright. I’ll tell you one of the reasons why I don’t like it and maybe you could come up with whatever. So one of the features that I love about ActiveCampaign is that you get the tracker. Okay. And the tracker could be installed on any website you have full control access to.

Carlos: (36:51) So, if you have your funnels and Clickfunnels and you have your regular website and WordPress if, and you can have the track on both Clickfunnels and WordPress. If, if somebody goes to your pricing page and, and, and you already have their email address and you want to send them an email to kind of follow up, uh, whatever ActiveCampaign could send out an automation sequence for that because ActiveCampaign knows.

Carlos: (37:13) Clickfunnels has no ability to do that other than the fact unless it happens inside of a funnel, like you really can’t do much. Uh, you can’t do much. Um, automation unless it happens. It’s out of the funnel. So that’s one of the things I don’t like about it. So if, if you’re sending out emails based off of behavior on website visits, Actionetics will not do anything that’s not inside of Clickfunnels. That’s one reason I don’t like it. Um, what else? Um, let’s see.

Jake: (37:45) It doesn’t have those elements. Extra elements that you have in ActiveCampaign that you can use, for example, I want to use deal here or I want to use, I want to use the trigger. For example, a custom field that is a trigger, a custom field that is a goal. There is no goal method in Clickfunnels so you have to come up with some kind of loops, just stop the emails and you’ll have to come up with some loops to do some kind of delay and they delay will be like based on the previous email, but on the user action.

Jake: (38:20) But when it comes to emails, you want everything to be the trigger and the goal would be the user action. Not what you are sending it but what we are doing, so yeah it lacks a lot of things. It just a complimentary for the fans and idea is as we are relying on uh, SMTP server like a third party SMTP server is also, it’s not good if you have any problems with, with your centigrade or whatever you are using mail gun or whatever you are using. Then the emails will not be fired.

Jake: (38:51) It says just not to try it because you are using it to send your email. So why they are asking you to subscribe to another SMTP server

Carlos: (39:00) Right. So when you said, when you get Actionetics, you actually also have to get an ascending mail service and they’ll sending those services is a whole separate subscription and that that’s annoying. And then you know, I like the fact that you said that you have a trigger and you have a goal. Actionetics can technically do it, but because we know programming and we know the little tricks or with the tags and stuff, we can figure it out. And then even then it’s like, okay, what’s the best way to do this with this?

Carlos: (39:29) We got this smart trigger with the smart list, we’ve got, um, these tags. Like we, we, we, we can figure it out. And that, that process alone is like, oh my God, I have to think of an idea. And then unfortunately, when you’re in a situation like that, you actually have to think ahead too, well, what happens if, if this happens?

Carlos: (39:49) And that means that we can get a false positive or I’ll give you an example. We had recently with a client, um, she’s using Kajabi for her, um, for her membership site, right? Yeah. And Kajabi, they, in order for Kajabi sale to be recognized with ActiveCampaign, we had to have a notification sent to ActiveCampaign. Um, so since we’re always crushing out these funnels pretty quickly, we have our like, streamlined process. But when you don’t want a new software, now I have to, we have to constantly think of, okay, how does this communicate with this?

Carlos: (40:24) How does this communicate with that? But you’re talking about multiple software. It’s normal, but if you’re talking about the same software, Clickfunnels inside of Actionetics, I was like, oh my God, now I have to think about stuff inside of Clickfunnels you, you basically have to be a cynic yet to think negative. Okay, what if it breaks? What if it breaks? What are going to do here? Because we’re talking about money here, so actually the next is just another one of those. You constantly, when you, when you start creating new ways to do something, you’re opening the door up to a bunch of other stuff, other accidents, other mishaps, and then who’s the one that looks like an idiot? We are.

Jake: (41:02) Emails are always more dangerous than landing page because landing page, if you screwed up, one user, five users, they will see it. You can fix it and you can tell them they can revisit, but in emails sometimes you aren’t going to do a campaign or new automation. If there is one error and you fired the campaign, it may goes to 100 people, 1000 people and then once you are going to say you’re all going to apologize, it was a new emails that they might not open at all.

Carlos: (41:32) Right, right. And then now you, you also hurt your deliverability because now you’re probably spam and the system will see you as spamming. At that point it’s, it’s annoying. So that’s why I don’t like, well I don’t like to depend on Actionetics at all. The only thing I like, it’s not even Actionetics is just a basic Clickfunnels feature is when a purchase is occurred, I want the welcome message of the purchase. Hey, congratulations. Here you go. That’s as far as I want to take it about having campaign.

Jake: (41:58) Yeah, those are the transactional emails you can, you can use coupons for them because they are just complimentary content. They are not the vital content you that you are selling and stuff. So you can’t rely on key fast forward in those, but your main alterations? No, don’t derides them.

Carlos: (42:17) Gotcha. Gotcha. Yep. I, I’m with you man. So, okay, we’re on the same page and um, and then uh, well I don’t want to really talk too much about this, but I could definitely do a store in there. I just threw on your new a new role and that’s the creation of Facebook custom audiences and pixels. And because it’s, it’s well within your house, you don’t need to worry about strategy, you just need to know, uh, create an audience based off of people landing on this page who didn’t land on this page. And that’s, that’s something that now how do you feel about Facebook and that aspect of it?

Jake: (42:52) Actually Facebook, where was my, like my biggest challenge because I didn’t touch it and for some reason I didn’t try to touch it usually would have, are there is some figured you, you know me like I want to be in and try something even if it’s not my role. Facebook was something that I did is he kept trying it and it did. It comes to the time that I have tried it until that time when you asked me do it, is there any, uh, it’s, it’s not, it’s not like something out of the box. You can do it if you put the time, eventually you can learn everything. If you have the time to go with it, because it’s our fields, we can hit everything.

Carlos: (43:31) Yeah. And you know what, the area that I threw on you was basically stuff that you’re already doing. Are you doing with Google tag manager? Google analytics? So it wasn’t, it’s like you’re doing strategy right then and there. You’re actually just doing implementation. Okay. If people land on this page, but not this page, I want you to call it this audience. So that’s, it’s pretty straight forward for a geek like us.

Carlos: (43:54) But anyone else? Um, just, just that alone is the power of funnels because a funnel has, let’s say an optin page and a thank you page. So we already know that if you land on an opt in page and you land on a thank you page, it’s because you put in your information at the opt in page. So we already know that as far as funnels our concern. So Facebook says, okay, if they lay it on the optin page, and they land on the thank you page, let’s go ahead and say these are new subscribers like

Carlos: (44:24) Like this is the logic behind funnels. If you have, if you use a system that it doesn’t take a person to separate pages, you know, unable to create these audiences so they can, let’s say for example, they land on a shopping cart page but they don’t land on a purchase confirmation page. They went ahead and start the order but they didn’t finish. So now we got to keep it on is assessed abandoned cart.

Carlos: (44:47) So that’s the power of the whole funnel concept. And that’s why I love, I love throwing things at you because it’s, you’ve already been doing this long enough to make the connection at that point. So alright man. I think that that’s, that’s it for now bro, because I think we get to, we could talk about this for hours and, and you know me, I have an Appsumo addiction or I’ve always [inaudible], which by the way, I got to know automation software.

Carlos: (45:11) Um, as of right now, I haven’t thrown it on you yet because it’s a game for me, but the latest one’s called SnowVille. Alright Jake.

Jake: (45:21) So maybe next next episode we’ll talk about it. It will take ActiveCampaign position.

Carlos: (45:27) That’s a great idea, man. You know what? We should have like a little session to go over these appsumo deals and just to kind of just dissect them. Dude, you just gave me a whole little new segment for a show then. Awesome. So you know, we should probably talk about SnowVille next. We should have like an episode where we, go ahead. We buy it. No, no. Oh, I got the idea. And whoever’s watching this, we are going to buy, we’re first, before we buy it, we’re going to talk about why we’re going to buy it and then we’re going to buy it. And then we’re gonna actually start playing with it in a real world use and then use that video to basically expose it to everyone else. What do you think about that?

Jake: (46:00) Yeah, yeah. It’s awesome. I do, we can compare it to the standards or the benchmark, which is in our case ActiveCampaign.

Carlos: (46:07) Dude, that’s a great idea. And now you and I have even more time. We’re going to be spending together. Alright man. So if anybody wants to reach out to you about how can they reach out to you man?

Jake: (46:20) Of course, my email and Twitter, I’m available on Twitter. My Twitter is Jake Dot Akkad.

Carlos: (46:33) Jake Dot A. K. K. A. D.

Jake: (46:36) Yes, exactly.

Carlos: (46:37) Good to go. And then you got [email protected] and um, and, and whenever someone works with you really quickly, um, if you are reaching out to them, it’s probably because it’s pretty it’s because you and Sharlene’s I want to work directly with the client. Okay?

Jake: (46:59) Yes.

Carlos: (46:59) But you’re the one that’s behind the scenes and you, you take care of the heavy lifting but if you are actually reaching out to them is because you probably need a fast response. Like for example like um, authentication. Like you know, Google has a two step authentication so it’s not because you, you’re just there to bother them. It’s because hey, at this point we need interaction directly.

Carlos: (47:20) Um, but for the most part you’re really behind the scenes

Jake: (47:24) Yeah, I’m the ghost.

Carlos: (47:26) You are the puppet master and no one of them seeing, you know. Alright my brother. Thank you so much man. And um, well we’re going to talk in a bit.

Jake: (47:38) Thank you for having me.

Carlos: (47:41) You got it man.

Closing: (47:42) Thanks for listening to the digital marketing secrets show with Carlos A. Vazquez. Want to join the exclusive digital marketing community? Of course, you do! Make sure to visit us at for more info. See you soon!



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